Curse

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 21, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Abedeus · Sep 21, 2009, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifow Chan

More than half Paragon skills. Spear Mastery attacks are pretty weak too. War, Ranger, Sins and Dervs all have skills with +30-40 damage while paras are all +17 and below. With the one +30ish giving the user weakness. You could tell Paras to use different weapons for more damage but Paras, are also sadly, not very versatile.

Paragon isn't a DPS class anymore. And it should've never been. You have a Sword DPS from a shortbow range + excellent e-management and extreme party support, and you want even more damage?

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 21, 2009, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 21, 2009, 05:40 AM // 05:40

silicagel · Sep 21, 2009, 05:53 AM // 05:53

There are many, many underpowered skills that don't work their way into any builds because they're simply too weak to justify using. I think the devs like to control the 'meta' somewhat.. sort of like how grocers control what we buy through methodical sales of certain brands and items.

Just off hand, though.. I was thinking about Shove the other day. This skill should have no adrenaline or skill deactivation penalty. Reduce the damage a tiny bit, move it to strength with a 50% chance of failure with 4 or less in Str.(to prevent sins from abusing it), shorten the recharge to 10. Leet shock for warriors.. could even work for hammer with no adrenaline penalty. Besides, warriors have come a long way from eviscerate bars and dismember is very nice on a split.

As it is, the skill has way too many penalties for a warrior to use outside of lame shove spike builds. Sins actually make better use of this skill, especially since it's in tactics.

So in the end, you'd have a shock axe warrior that can 1/4 knock without exhaustion penalties, and a weaker adrenaline spike... but it's all about utility anymore, right? shove on recharge... hmm...

silicagel · Sep 21, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifow Chan

More than half Paragon skills. Spear Mastery attacks are pretty weak too. War, Ranger, Sins and Dervs all have skills with +30-40 damage while paras are all +17 and below. With the one +30ish giving the user weakness. You could tell Paras to use different weapons for more damage but Paras, are also sadly, not very versatile.

Paragons are intended to do some damage, which they do, while being a support class. They were always intended to be a support class, that much is obvious from the assortment of party support skills in their arsenal and the method of emanagement. So to give spear mastery any major buffs is pretty silly given the paragon's role.

BUT, just fyi, don't under estimate the power of deep wound + damage at range. Cruel spear or vicious attack can land a pretty mean blow to an opponent if deep wound isn't redundant with someone else attacking the same target.

turbo234 · Sep 21, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mend_Condition

actually mend condition is used quite alot. if it was underpowered no one would use it.

Catchphrase · Sep 21, 2009, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I think there needs to be a distinction made between genuinely underpowered skills and unfavored decent skills. Charge is hardly underpowered at all, it's just that current meta have skills such as Fallback being seen as more favorable due to its ease access from it's command attribute line as compared to tactics. I don't see Quickshot as underpowered nor decent, it is just another one of the skills that awaits to be abused when a buff is made to skill which can linked with it well, just as it was the case with Signet of Midnight.

DarkGanni · Sep 21, 2009, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Ele skills:

Smoldering embers
Starburst
Armor of frost
Ice prison / Teinai's prison

All the ones I can think of.

lutz · Sep 21, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Guess I'll start with Ritualist.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Renewing_Surge

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Brutal_Weapon
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Binding
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Resilient_Weapon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

I'll do Dervish next...

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pious_Concentration

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crippling_Victory

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guiding_Hands

Quote:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Archer%27s_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Run_as_One

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Debilitating_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Power_Shot

Some of these skills you listed are not underpowered at all. Some of them may be niche skills, but by no means should they be part of a list of "most underpowered skills".

In fact, some of them are extremely strong.

Threads like this open to the general public really end up hosting really misguiding opinions. Then, when ArenaNet ends up listening to some of these people, really poor skill balance choices happen.

IronSheik · Sep 21, 2009, 09:12 AM // 09:12

On above, surge is crap, brutal is niche, binding sucks, resilient is actually good.

Pious is good, crippling is mediocre, guiding sucks

Archer's sucks, whirling mediocre, used in farming. Run as one sucks, debilitating is decent, power is decent.

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 21, 2009, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

On above, surge is crap, brutal is niche, binding sucks, resilient is actually good.

Pious is good, crippling is mediocre, guiding sucks

Archer's sucks, whirling mediocre, used in farming. Run as one sucks, debilitating is decent, power is decent.

Oh, by no means are all of them bad. They average from bad to mediocre. A few of them may be important in some niche builds, but generally not very viable on a normal skillbar. Some are "good", but have better options, making them useless. Power Shot for example, it isn't bad as such, but there's so many better choices.

But yeah, loling @ Renewing Surge being good. It's conditional flare...

Sarevok Thordin · Sep 21, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Skull Crack..........

sLiceR · Sep 21, 2009, 10:20 AM // 10:20

primal rage, woh and other stuff

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 21, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

For lutz, I'll go into detail why each of them are bad.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Renewing_Surge
> It's a conditional flare

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Brutal_Weapon
> Nearly any "balanced" team will have enchants. You'd have to actually build the team around using the skill...and even in that situation it doesn't add any massive damage. Niche at best.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Binding
> If you are trying to counter a spirit, it is easier to just hit it a couple times, rather than waste a skill slot on it. Not to mention that it's a complete waste of skill slot if no spirits show up.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Resilient_Weapon
> Bad? No, not really...overshadowed by better Weapon Spells? Yes, unfortunately. It could use a slight tweak, and maybe a minor mechanics change.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pious_Concentration
> Decent? Yeah, it's decent. That's about it. Dervish don't get interrupted since most spells are 1/4, so it's a secondary Dervish skill (which happens to be the case with so many)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crippling_Victory
> http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crippling_Sweep

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guiding_Hands
> 2 attacks are unblockable every 20 seconds? Hardly worth a skill slot with an uptime of about 5%.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Archer%27s_Signet
> Conditions get removed quickly, and if they don't, most conditions can be renewed by the time the duration is up. The exceptions to this are Daze and Burning (at least for a ranger), both which happen to be an elite as well.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense
> Terrible recharge, and it's secondary effect is less useful than Lightning Reflexes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Run_as_One
> Requires 15 Beast Mastery to be maintained, is only 25%, and the only time when both you and your pet needs IMS is when you will be running Rampage as One, negating this.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Debilitating_Shot
> It's not bad as such. It's decent in theory...but it isn't going to completely screw up a Monk's day. You are better off taking another interrupt, which would cost them more energy in the long run.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Power_Shot
> Overshadowed by many Bow Attacks, to the point of not even being able to fit on the skill bar after them.

subarucar · Sep 21, 2009, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

Oh, by no means are all of them bad. They average from bad to mediocre. A few of them may be important in some niche builds, but generally not very viable on a normal skillbar. Some are "good", but have better options, making them useless. Power Shot for example, it isn't bad as such, but there's so many better choices.

But yeah, loling @ Renewing Surge being good. It's conditional flare...

This thread is after the MOST underpowered skills, not anything that isn't in the current meta. If you want to contribute something to this thread then you could find the worst skills of those you listed.

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 21, 2009, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by subarucar

This thread is after the MOST underpowered skills, not anything that isn't in the current meta. If you want to contribute something to this thread then you could find the worst skills of those you listed.

All of them are unusable if you want to be competitive.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've posted MOST of the underpowered skills, compared to everyone else.

subarucar · Sep 21, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

All of them are unusable if you want to be competitive.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've posted MOST of the underpowered skills, compared to everyone else.

I can almost agree with you on both those points.

There are couple of skills I don't agree with, but they are only marginally useful in lulPvE.

lord of all tyria · Sep 21, 2009, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

For lutz, I'll go into detail why each of them are bad.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Brutal_Weapon
> Nearly any "balanced" team will have enchants. You'd have to actually build the team around using the skill...and even in that situation it doesn't add any massive damage. Niche at best.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Resilient_Weapon
> Bad? No, not really...overshadowed by better Weapon Spells? Yes, unfortunately. It could use a slight tweak, and maybe a minor mechanics change.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pious_Concentration
> Decent? Yeah, it's decent. That's about it. Dervish don't get interrupted since most spells are 1/4, so it's a secondary Dervish skill (which happens to be the case with so many)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense
> Terrible recharge, and it's secondary effect is less useful than Lightning Reflexes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Debilitating_Shot
> It's not bad as such. It's decent in theory...but it isn't going to completely screw up a Monk's day. You are better off taking another interrupt, which would cost them more energy in the long run.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Power_Shot
> Overshadowed by many Bow Attacks, to the point of not even being able to fit on the skill bar after them.

Brutal Weapon. Rspike.
Resilient Weapon. Flaggers.
Pious Concentration. Getting off hexes with MoR down.
Whirling Defense. Used for ages when people were turret ranger lord camping.
Debilitating Shot. Strong vs single monks.
Power Shot. Replaces hunters in lolspike builds.

Skills that see regular use are not underpowered.

Master Sword Keeper · Sep 21, 2009, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Ranger's Power shot.

Crossfire can out-do it anyday. lol?

Powershot < Crossfire